Interview with Jeremy Rifkin

"A sustainable energy economy is the basis of the third industrial revolution" - A talk with Jeremy Rifkin about the central economic role of renewable energy sources and a hydrogen economy

Jeremy Rifkin, who was born in 1943 in Denver, Colorado, is the founder and president of The Foundation on Economic Trends in Washington, D.C. In his writings over the last few decades, Rifkin has addressed various environmental policy, scientific, and technological issues. The author of books such as The Hydrogen Economy (2002) and The European Dream (2004), Rifkin is currently advising, among others, the European Parliament and the President of the European Union, José Sócrates, on future energy policy.

People all over the world are describing global warming as a crisis. By contrast, you also connect a positive vision with global warming — the vision of a third industrial revolution, as you call it. Are you an incurable optimist, Mr. Rifkin?

Rifkin: Global warming is the biggest crisis the human race has faced since the beginning of its existence. Climate change endangers the entire biosphere and our future. This crisis makes it imperative for us to radically rethink our energy policy. The overall plan I am calling for in this connection is aimed at bringing about a third industrial revolution by creating a new, sustainable energy economy on the basis of renewable energy sources.

But fossil sources of energy and nuclear power are still the two main pillars of our energy supply. Renewable energy sources still play a secondary role, don’t they?

Rifkin: Fossil and nuclear energy sources have long been in a twilight phase. A sunset of this kind may last for a while, but nobody is denying nowadays that the use of these resources has passed its peak. So I asked myself the question: How can we achieve further economic growth if the current energy regime is in its dying days? It will be very difficult to achieve such a goal under the present conditions.

In your opinion, what are the indicators or harbingers of this revolutionary change?

Rifkin: The history of the human race teaches us that the transition to a new energy regime is always accompanied by the introduction of a new type of communication. Book printing and ultimately the mass media accompanied the first industrial revolution, which was based on the use of coal and steam power. The second industrial revolution, which was powered by electricity and oil, was accompanied by electrical forms of communication such as telegraphy, telephony, radio, and TV. Approximately 15 years ago the emergence of digital technology, mobile telephony and, above all, the Internet sparked a new revolution in ways to communicate and communications structures.

What does the one thing — the prevailing energy regime — have to do with the other — namely, the way we communicate with one another?

Rifkin: The first chapter of this revolution of the digital media has already been written. It has brought us increased productivity thanks to information technology, new forms of education and entertainment — and new products and services. But the decentralized, networked communication structures that have arisen as a result of the Internet will write Chapter 2. And this chapter, which is just beginning, will cause even more significant changes. As far as the energy economy is concerned, we are gradually realizing that the shift away from centrally oriented and hierarchically organized structures toward decentralized, distributed structures that are organized on a network basis like the Internet is opening the door to a truly sustainable energy economy.

What role is to be played in this scenario by renewable energy sources — and especially by hydrogen, which you are promoting so enthusiastically as an energy storage medium?

Rifkin: Fossil energy sources and uranium can be found only very locally in a few regions of the world. In order to exploit, distribute, and use these resources and safeguard them, we have to mobilize a large proportion of our total geopolitical investments. The use of nuclear energy precipitates crises, and wars are waged on account of oil. The locally concentrated occurrence of these energy sources practically compels the creation of centralized and rigid hierarchic structures.

The situation with renewable energy sources is completely different. The sun shines on every part of the planet, the wind blows everywhere, and in every village on earth there is rubbish that can be used to generate energy. In other words, everyone can produce and use renewable energy sources everywhere in the world — sustainably and without polluting the environment.

Hydrogen is needed as an energy storage medium in this scenario. After all, the sun doesn’t shine 24 hours a day and the wind doesn’t blow continuously. And, of course, it doesn’t always blow hard enough to enable me to cover all my energy needs any time I want. That’s why we need a storage medium that can save any momentary surplus of energy for later use. Hydrogen can act as a universal energy storage carrier here, just as digital data sets act as a universal information medium.

That’s a very bold vision, isn’t it?

Rifkin: If I had predicted 20 years ago that in 2007 a billion people worldwide would be using tiny, hand-held devices to send one another data, photos, music or texts at lightning speed whenever they felt like it, everybody would have said I was crazy.

So now, try to imagine the world in 25 years’ time. I predict there will be millions of fuel cells — stationary ones in houses and mobile ones in vehicles. With this kind of power source, vehicles will no longer be just a means of transport — they’ll also be miniature power stations. That’s because when I don’t need my car for transportation the fuel-cell drive system can convert the hydrogen in the tank back into electricity, which I can feed into a smart distribution network. Let’s call it the Intergrid by analogy with the Internet. In the same way that we exchange data via the Internet, we’ll use the Intergrid to exchange energy. With the help of the Intergrid we’ll really be able to “think globally, act locally.” After all, the Intergrid will enable us to sell locally generated energy to customers all over the globe. I consider this the bottom-up approach to globalization.

You’ve been promoting this kind of rethinking much more often in Europe than in your home country, the U.S. Why is that?

Rifkin: The EU is the first superpower in the world to commit itself to the expansion of renewable energy sources. The goal has been defined in very concrete terms: 20 percent of the EU’s energy needs should be covered by renewable energy sources by 2020. This means that the EU is working to set up the first of the three pillars of a sustainable energy economy, and that in turn will be the basis of the third industrial revolution.

This October the EU adopted a long-term program to build up a hydrogen infrastructure that will cost billions of euros. I regard this as the second pillar. Finally, the members of the European Parliament and the European Commission have also begun to create the third pillar through their plan to take the control of the electricity networks within the EU away from the energy producers and put it in the hands of network operators that are independent of the producers. And that, in my opinion, is a key precondition for being able to use the Intergrid as a free exchange just like the Internet.

Bibliography of Jeremy Rifkin